Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

It doesn't sound like there's any dispute about what happened.

Woah, hold on just a minute there!

The only reason there is no dispute is because we're getting the story 100% from one side. I don't know either of these people involved and I suspect none of the commenters here do either. There are several possible narratives that fit this story:

* "Sleazy dude attacks woman"

* "Clash of cultures; open-marriage dude meets conservative girl"

* "Crazy bitch made it all up"

A couple days ago there was a HN story about WhosHere suing WhosNearMe and the thread was full of "we need to hear the other side before rushing to judgement". This insight seems to have been lost here.



The specifics of this one incident are not all that important. It is one anecdote among many. She never named the person in question; she is not trying to publicly shame him or anything of the sort.

This isn't something where we need to hear another side of the story, other than maybe from the conference organizer (though even there, she's not trying to blame one conference or one organizer, just pointing out that this is something that is frequently overlooked).

If you have any decent amount of life experience, you have seen something like this happen at some point. There are men, who sexually harass women, and don't take no for an answer. In any large enough group of men, you will find one at some point. Have you never met someone who has done such a thing? Never met someone who has been a victim of such a thing? Actually, even if you think you haven't met such a victim, you may have, since most people don't like to talk about this sort of thing.

The story is that the conference didn't have any effective way of dealing with the situation, not the details of what actually happened. This sort of stuff happens. The question is, what do we do about it? Do we ignore the problem, hide our head in the sand and hope it sorts itself out? Do we say "well, if you don't like it, don't go to conferences, or don't go to meet ups at the bar afterwards"? Or do we try to do something about it, make it clear what sort of behavior is acceptable and what is not, and tell people that if they cross that line, they won't be welcome at events any more?

And your two alternative readings are quite a stretch. The second is "Clash of cultures; open-marriage dude meets conservative girl." I know many people with many alternative lifestyles, open marriages, polyamorous relationships, Master/slave relationships, and the like. In none of those cultures would this behavior be considered acceptable. He didn't take no for an answer; that's one very clear signal that he is ignoring, and no matter how open you are in your marriage, no means no. He also, after going far beyond the line to someone who had already said no and stating that he's in an open relationship and would have a threesome with his wife involved, went on to call his daughter a slut. There is no sense in which that can be considered healthy; that is either blatantly hypocritical, or a creepy sexualization of his own daughter, and he clearly has some issues.

Your third reading is also incredibly uncharitable. Here is someone who is posting under her own name. She is putting herself out in public, describing a rather personal and traumatic scene, under a real name. But you will notice, she has not named the person in question. She has not named the conference in question. She has not named the conference director in question. It is clear that she is not trying to smear anyone. All she is asking for is that we think about these kinds of issues, and have an answer for how we will deal with them in the future.

So, yes, it is worthwhile to take stories with a grain of salt. Think about whether someone could be lying; what they would stand to gain, or who they might hurt. But really? Does she stand to gain anything here other than a little notoriety as that person who was sexually harassed and spoke out about it? Does she stand to hurt anyone? As far as I can tell, the greatest thing she could gain from this is a more well defined sexual harassment policy at more conferences. Would that be a bad thing?

So, even if this was all a misunderstanding, or made up, do you really think that this isn't an issue? That we shouldn't have any way of dealing with this kind of issue?

The least charitable way to read this is that she is simply trying to make the issue of sexual harassment at conferences sound more important than it actually is. I know, from personal experience, that this is a very important issue. People like she described are extremely harmful to a community. Even if her story was entirely made up, there are people like that out there, and you need to have an effective way of dealing with them or you will get hurt or allow others to be hurt.


He didn't take no for an answer; that's one very clear signal that he is ignoring

Here you are again putting absolute faith in one side's description of the events. Do you think Swinger Dude would describe the story in the same way? We really have no idea.

Even more importantly, conference organizers really have no way to know. Let's say you are running a conference and you get this story about one of your speakers. You talk to him and he says "it wasn't like that". What do you do? Cancel his talk?

Unless you're asking for HR-style processes, any policy you try to create will continue on exactly as it has in this case: Information flows to the event organizer, and the organizer makes future decisions based on his/her judgement of the credibility of the actors involved. Maybe the speaker won't be invited back next year. Maybe Ms. Elman won't be invited back next year. Maybe the organizer won't care. Who knows.

As far as being uncharitable: People lie. Even more often, they misrepresent situations to their narrative advantage. This story has certainly gotten the author a lot of attention, and probably many new fans of her blog. There are many potential motives here and I see no reason suspend healthy skepticism.

Do I really think this behavior isn't really an issue? I don't know. All I have here is a one-sided anecdote from a stranger. I'm not even sure it clearly qualifies as Sexual Harassment, ie intimidation, bullying or coercion of a sexual nature, or the unwelcome or inappropriate promise of rewards in exchange for sexual favors.[1] Even taking the story at face value, it's not clear there was actual intimidation involved - just awful behavior. Take her summary paragraph:

"It was incredibly disappointing, humiliating and degrading on so many levels. I had been turned from a professional colleague into "a hook-up" at a bar. I was disgusted by his behavior, his comments about his family and the fact he is even associated with the Django community."

There's no variation on "it was scary, I was concerned for my safety, I felt intimidated". Taking the story at face value - yes, this was incredibly boorish behavior, but the right solution IMHO was to get him bounced from the bar. This kind of behavior happens in all kinds of bars to all kinds of women - bouncers are well-equipped to deal with it. Conference organizers are not.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment


Also: woman was hit on, but she gets confused about which guy it was, or has the wrong name.


Huh? She never mentioned anyone's name in this post. And as far as I can tell, there were no consequences for him in this story. What would his name have to do with anything?




Consider applying for YC's Fall 2026 batch! Applications are open till July 27.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: