i'm seeing lots of emotions for some reason. don't like a wm? use something else. is a developer from another project harassing you? say "no. go away. shoo". this is just silly
Maybe you know this, but gtk is not gnome - it's an intermediate dependency on which gnome is built. As such, it's also a very useful tool for building other applications desktop environments, and window managers.
The developers of gnome also have the keys to the gtk project.
One approach for the Gnome and GTK devs would be to consider Gnome as one (albeit very important, but just one) client of GTK among all the other big users of GTK. Instead, they are changing GTK with complete disregard to anything that is not the Gnome.
What's an apt metaphor...
Imagine if the private companies that owned the infrastructure of the internet wanted to charge consumers differentially based on how they used the wire. Now, as owners of the infrastructure, you might say that's totally within their power.
OR you might say, the service that is transmitted by the wire is greater than just the infrastructure underneath it, and you, private company, are under an obligation to provide fair access to all it's uses.
Was that helpful? Probably not - metaphors are lies anyway.
So let's try to explain the emotion part. Gnome devs are saying, "Look we don't know or care about the millions of hours you've put in your software because it's not Gnome."
So,emotions? Yes! This is peoples life work, and projects they have helped make successful are turning their backs on them and apparently completely ignorant of their own audacity. "I don't know what XFCE is." - wtf
I think it's upsetting particularly because it seems like there could be a much more amicable way forward if gnome would consider itself as it is, just one (very important) of the many clients of GTK.
With great power comes great... aww fuck it I use xmonad anyway.
"use something else" doesn't help if one of the two[1] primary linux toolkits is constantly breaking things in order to bend applications into their branding. That kind of shit bleeds out.
[1]Actually it's worse than one of the two because QT has been so tightly coupled for so long (and I seem to recall some licensing stuff earlier on) GTK is really closer to the primary toolkit for non desktop specific apps.
GNOME, and Red Hat projects in general, have a long history of pushing things through with dependency nepotism. GNOME was used to push PulseAudio and Network Manager, Network Manager doesn't work without DBus, ConsoleKit and PolicyKit running, PulseAudio strongly suggests installing and enabling Avahi, Gnome Shell doesn't run outside Mutter, udev can only be built along with systemd and journald, GNOME 3 wants you to initialize the system with systemd otherwise some functionality will be broken, GNOME 3 requires GTK3 which breaks themes for any application running in GTK2, Gvfs only works through Nautilus, etc etc etc...
You're really missing the point. For example, this story about the developer isn't about harrassment, it's about the complete misunderstanding of other projects and how they work.
umm... my point is, you're free to ignore someone, tell them to go away, not use their software, etc. you can do whatever you want with your project (within reasonable limits, obviously. i would normally not add a qualifier, but you seem like a picky fellow). and they can do whatever they want (same qualifier)
This is a very problematic approach for developers who are looking to commit to a library for years.
In the least, it leads to extremely inefficient resource usage as you have to constantly rewrite everything, or just abandon your app.
So, if we go back in history, what could developers do when choosing their libraries? They would need some kind of assurance that it's not going to change a lot. Perhaps a foundation with rules that require voting and a large majority to change guiding principles and rules.
We need predictability in software development, like we do need in other industries and avenues of life. It is very very valuable in real tangible terms.
If they develop an OPEN library that's meant to be used on more than one environment, by making the library closed to GNOME, you're betraying everyone that chose the library because of it's openness.
It's basically a shot in the foot since the DE itself is useless without apps that work on it. If devs (which is not even improbable) start leaving GTK they will feel the pain even more.
